ATILUS - Web Design | Internet Marketing

links for 2008-05-15

• How Much Does a Website Cost? | Atilus Fort Myers Naples, Florida Web Design Blog
  How much does a website cost? Well that depends. How much does a building cost? “Ballpark figure. If you had to give me a number?” All buildings are different. Is this a manufactured home you’re thinking of? A commercial building? Perhaps a beaut
  (tags: website cost-of-website website-cost)

Controversy is good!

The towns people are angry!

Apparently my ever controversial blog post What does a website cost? has the web design community stirring… for various reasons.

I encourage the voice of the web people. And I thoroughly believe that despite the negativity, sarcasm, etc that this ultimately is good for business. 

Read on my friends as it gets better and better as more and more posts came in.

Keep in mind that ‘Scott Clark’ is me in response to the other blog comments posted.

Comments»

1. victor- April 16, 2008[Edit]
yea your right. I am actually guilty of charging only $2k for wordpress modifications. I guess I should be charging a lot more.

2. Scott Clark - April 16, 2008[Edit]
Thanks for the comment Victor. I appreciate you stopping by.
You should be charging what you feel is appropriate for the time you will spend on a given project. Consider the complexity of the work being rendered times the number of hours of the service. This should be a fair and honest way to estimate a project. Other factors may include: your level of expertise, your availability and projected completion date.
Here at Atilus, we charge $120/hour for Wordpress modifications, but the total estimate depends on the intensity of the modification.
I hope my article has helped you. Please feel free to email me at (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) should you have any other questions.

3. devin - April 16, 2008[Edit]
I agree with Scott on this one. Another note to take with you is that the hourly charge also reflects how many professionals are on the project. At a company like Atilus, you get a graphics professional for the design, dynamic language pro that can make just about any fancy things you request come to life, a marketing guy that can tell you how you’re site is going to make money, and not to mention a client rep that to channel all of this to the client.

4. Scott L. Clark - April 16, 2008[Edit]
Excellent point Devin!
The costs of developing a website and its subsequent marketing are not arbitrary and are affected by many factors that Devin was so kind to list for us.
A team of experts will most certainly cost more than a one man show. You have a collective effort of many talented individuals versus the limited talents and abilities of one, who cannot be expected to be an expert in all arenas of web development and internet marketing.
Not to mention, what if your web ‘guy’ dies?

5. Rick Jamerson - May 13, 2008[Edit]
I can’t believe that it would take a company apparently as professional as yours upwards of 12,000 to make a blog. Either you’re ripping customers off or you’re incompetant. One framework could be re-used thousands of times, saving you time and your customers money. Yes, each site needs its own modifications, but if you build a solid framework you can run pretty much anything off it.
6. Scott L. Clark - May 13, 2008[Edit]
Thank you for the comment Rick, but I don’t believe you thoroughly read my post, or you discontinued reading upon finding something that dissatisfied you. I will offer additional insight
You’re right in saying that a blog should not cost $12,000. However, in our experience, we have noticed that most clients who desire blogging functionality also desire the ability to manage and manipulate their site, its contents and inventory if applicable (CMS- Content management System and shopping cart management- product import/export, shipping management, etc)). Furthermore, I never said that a blog alone would cost in excess of $12k, as I stated many features collectively would total that amount. A blog is an excellent feature and should be present in a site of such high caliber.
Additionally, we custom design our sites to suit the unique business needs of our clients, and all too often clients that understand the important benefits of and desire blogging functionality also desire far more intensive design elements than your template, sell by the dozen, approach could satisfy. Therefore they are provided with beautiful design that surpasses the designs you are suggesting.
You have to remember that the purpose of this post was merely to inform our audience of the approximate pricing structures of web sites and web applications. These numbers are not exact and are contingent upon and affected by many factors. These factors include but are not limited to needs, goals, time line, design, and functionality. Certainly you can find a blog online that is free, but that is all you will get- a skinned, lower level functioning blog without any additional features. These blogs are pluggable and flexible and that is where we as designers step in and make them so much more regarding both aesthetics and functionality to help companies service their clients in a unique way- as I don’t know of many ‘template’ companies so why use a template site to showcase your products, services and related opinions via blog.

7. James - May 13, 2008[Edit]
Interesting read to say the least. I guess I should be charging more! Have passed this on to a few friends of mine.

8. Scott Clark - May 13, 2008[Edit]
Thank you very much James. I always appreciate the opinions of fellow web professionals.
This blog post has certainly created some controversial buzz, so if you or your fellow colleagues have any questions please feel free to ask, as I am always willing to provide additional information.
9. Lindsey - May 13, 2008[Edit]
Haha, are you guys hiring? Because apparently I’m ripping myself off with what I charge clients .
Also, your last comment was really snarky, “Sure you can, but it will not display and operate like a professionally designed website will and it will be as ineffective and unsuccessful as the individual who designed it.”
Many professional designers don’t charge what you are charging and are able to create beautiful, rich and interactive websites and are anything but unsuccessful.

10. Brady - May 13, 2008[Edit]
with so many designers saying that they are under charging, i’m fourced to wonder, how do you set your prices?

11. Scott Clark - May 13, 2008[Edit]
I am noticing that a majority of those commenting on this blog post are fellow web professionals, so I will address you all collectively.
Our prices, as previously mentioned, are dictated by many elements ranging from time line constrictions to level of desired functionality and design.
But perhaps what is affecting our prices compared to your own is that we are a design firm that has a very diversified and extensive portfolio showcasing expertness in design, web based application development, database development, SEO, PPC and so much more. We have professionals that only build databases, professionals who only create flash design, professionals who only manage Pay per Click marketing campaigns, and so on and so forth.
Unfortunately, as creative and talented as you may be, you can not deliver the products that we deliver as a one or two man shop. One or two individuals cannot have and maintain the level of expertise that is provided through a team of professionals.
Furthermore, I am noticing that many of you whom have commented are doing so from the UK.
Does anyone take into account the varying value of the dollar, especially versus the Euro?

12. Zach Katkin - May 13, 2008[Edit]
We’re paying like $15 for a loaf of bread.

13. anon - May 13, 2008[Edit]
Ha ha ha Im using the Dollar!

Microsoft XP Shelf life Extension?

As seen on Yahoo! homepage, Christopher Null of Yahoo! Tech writes…

With concern over the end of the road for Windows XP reaches feverish levels, Microsoft appears to be altering yet again its timeline for killing off the popular operating system, which would ultimately force people into upgrading to Vista.

Read the article here.

Skype Problems Resolved?

As promised, I am here to offer an update to the ongoing Skype problems I have been experiencing as of lately.

To recap I am having the following issue:

1) Contacts appear ‘offline’ and are therefore incommunicable

2) Phone calls are not being redirected to cell phone

3) Instant messaging service is failing to send messages, if at all they send in bulk.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I contacted Skype and was awaiting a response.

Well the response came in…

Andre, and this is by no means an attack on a Skype Support Staff member, was kind enough to return my email with the following directions on how to continue my services without future disturbances and errors.

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Skype Support.

To help resolve some common connection issues, please follow these steps:

Try to create a new rule in the exception list of your Firewall.

If you are using Windows built-in firewall:
Go to Start menu > Settings > Control Panel > Windows firewall.
If ‘Don’t allow exceptions’ is ticked, please untick it.
Go to the ‘Exceptions’ tab.
If Skype is already listed there, delete it.
Start Skype, you will be prompted to allow Skype to connect to internet, accept it.

If you are using some other firewall:
Go to Start menu > Programs and select your firewall.
Make sure that exceptions are allowed.
Go to ‘Exceptions’ tab.
If there is Skype listed below, delete it.
Start Skype, you will be prompted to allow Skype to connect to the internet, select ‘Yes’.

For firewall setup - http://www.skype.com/intl/en/help/guides/firewalls/

If you are behind a proxy server, make sure you have set all proxy settings correctly in Internet Explorer > Tools > Internet Options > Connections > LAN settings and in Skype under Tools > Options > Connection.

Our troubleshooter can be found here: http://support.skype.com/?_a=troubleshooter

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you are still experiencing difficulties

Best regards,
Andre
—-
Skype Support

Hmmm… Andre… you couldn’t have been more off bro. Just by looking at this I knew that it was not going to solve my issues, but I gave Andre’s method a ‘go’ anyway.

His directions were loose, but thankfully I know my way around a computer and filled in his blanks. Certainly your average user would have been lost in these directions alone, despite the fact that they are useless anyway, which further compounds the frustration.

In conclusion, Skype is still not functioning properly, which is increasingly pissing me off!

I will keep you posted as I am awaiting a second response, which i hope has more forethought than the last.

How Much Does a Website Cost?

How much does a website cost? Well… that depends. How much does a building cost? “Ballpark figure. If you had to give me a number?” All buildings are different. Is this a manufactured home you’re thinking of? A commercial building? Perhaps a beautiful lake front mansion with marble Romanesque columns. I guess the answer should be… it depends. And web development is not much different.

I can’t believe that it would take a company apparently as professional as yours upwards of 12,000 to make a blog. Either you’re ripping customers off or you’re incompetent. One framework could be re-used thousands of times, saving you time and your customers money. Yes, each site needs its own modifications, but if you build a solid framework you can run pretty much anything off it.

I’ll address this comment later, but first of all I would like to thank Scott for writing and publishing his great article on our blog to which the above was a comment - just a few weeks ago. He was really able to sum up “what does a website cost.” Without going into full detail on everything mentioned here is just a brief break down of what was discussed regarding the cost of a good website:

• $1000-$2000 Basic Design Website
• $3000-$7000 Custom Design Websites visually attractive, completely unique design
• $7000- $12,000 Content Management System (CMS) Websites
• $12,000- $100,000+ - totally custom situations, implementation of more advanced design & programming, etc.

Visit the Complete Article - What Does a Website Cost?

Internally we had discussed the idea at length writing an in-depth article about how much does a website cost and, finally decided to hit “publish” after weighing everything. We effectively laid all of our cards on the table, allowing our audience, the web developer community, our competition and future clients to understand how much this web stuff costs. The truth is the biggest thing we were concerned with in writing and publishing an article like this would be backlash from the web community or independent developers. Ultimately, the benefits outweigh the negative we have to educate the community on the steps, time, and price involved in a proper web presence.

Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing two things from new or potential clients:

1. I took my project out to bid and am getting numbers all over the place! One company says $1500.00 and one company says $100,000.

2. I just got out of a terrible situation with a developer that under performed. The design was all wrong; he couldn’t do what I asked, he/she was never there, I can’t get a hold of them, etc.

We work very closely with all of our clients, and to hear stories like this from potential clients, it is a huge blow to our industry and in many ways our individual business. But, everyone needs to understand, both people purchasing or thinking about purchasing a website as well as developers (companies and individual contractors alike), that this is a reality, that this is our industry, and that something must be done. Internally we’ve drawn parallels of our industry to the Wild West, or the dark ages, both in terms of technology as well as the professional industry’s formation. The web is this mysterious “thing” and those who can harness its power, alchemists. But, overall there are too many people either a) selling themselves short or b) under delivering creating an ecosystem that is simply not sustainable.

At the end of the day one must realize that the web development and Internet marketing business is similar to many service based industries an attorney, a doctor, an accountant the cost is not based on materials it’s based more on man hours, education, proficiency, benefit, and reputation. But unfortunately, “Corporate Attorney” as a profession is much sexier (or more respected by parents)  at the moment than “PHP Developer”.

(one day “php developer” will be sexy)

Much like all of these services you can do this yourself. You can create your Will, do your taxes, perform an applendectomy (removing your Adams apple), even make your own website (by far the most dangerous and bloody of those services just listed), and indeed many times you should. There are lots of resources available to help you in your journey and great software that will help you do so. But, at a certain point it may behoove you to move to a professional. At that point, do you choose a reputable professional, based on experience, track record, etc., or do you choose one solely on price?

Unfortunately, almost everyone has been there, or I should say come from there. You chose a product or service solely on price and then find out it wasn’t exactly what you needed or didn’t solve the problem you had. Ultimately, if you stick with this kind of product or service, it often ends up costing much more than was actually saved in down time and lost productivity.

And that brings me to my big point about the cost of a website and my direct address to developers.

How valuable is your time?

Most of us have the capacity to learn, and do, much of the things we pay others to do. You can read a car manual, practice on your beat up old truck, and then eventually be capable of solving your own engine or car troubles. But, instead you didn’t do that. You went to a mechanic.

You’re a business owner, a pharmacist, a dog breeder, you’ve specialized in a trade or service (hopefully one that you love), relying on the expertise and experience others can provide, as well as the time (and money) saving that this specialization and expertise affords. So developers reading this article… how valuable is your time?

At the beginning of this article I included a nasty comment we recently received from a commenter on Scott’s recent article, “What Does a Website Cost?”:

I can’t believe that it would take a company apparently as professional as yours upwards of 12,000 to make a blog. Either you’re ripping customers off or you’re incompetant. One framework could be re-used thousands of times, saving you time and your customers money. Yes, each site needs its own modifications, but if you build a solid framework you can run pretty much anything off it.

We are by no means charging $12,000 for the blogging software (wordpress.org - free) or (in some cases) the content management software a website is built on. But, what we are charging for our time in planning, creating, and developing a site that not only matches the aesthetics a client is trying to achieve (and can immediately evaluate with their eyes and wrist movements), but also meets and exceeds their ultimate marketing and business goals. Additionally we are charging for our education, proficiency, benefit, and reputation as developers.

We develop:

• A plan for production, maintenance, marketing, and break even & profitability ideas (selling advertising, determining lead goals, etc.)
• a website that matches the way a client wants it to look and move, with our experience with end users as well as common web conventions.
• a website that includes the colors, images, pictures, and text they need it to include and need generated/created.
• a website that includes the back end functionality, reporting, accounting, etc. that needs to be incorporated.
• a website that properly reaches, touches, and makes its target audience respond, through close attention to design detail, copy writing, keyword research, search engine optimization, etc.
• a website that will grow with a company and allow it to truly meet the goals we’ve planned.
• ...and we build the future into the process.

That last item is perhaps most important. You must keep the future in mind! For the most part you can go through the above steps and create a website for nothing; substitute Dreamweaver for NVU, Photoshop for GIMP, host with Angelfire .  But, can you afford to do so forever? There will be times when companies need to update their website, add functionality, and need to do so right away! This seems to be one of the bigger problems plagued or not addressed by independent developers and many web design companies. You have developed, and will need to support, your clients’ business online. Many people’s livelihood’s may be at stake. In fact - if you’ve done it right - they SHOULD BE AT STAKE! Your website should be an indispensable tool for the company you built it for. It should familiarize potential clients with the team, help shorten sales cycles, generate leads, generate REAL revenue. And we develop a team around each company and website we work with to help create ideas that will build our clients’ business online.

What we develop, these steps we go through to create these successful web presences, require professionals, experts in their fields, which we are honored enough to have here.